You should take a look at this thread were it's discussed the procedure to do so. You'll need to install tklpatch and download a couple of scripts from that thread in order to convert your appliances. Which appliances are you interested in running?
I'm successfully running source control, two custom appliances, redmine, tracks, torrent server, mindtouch and a couple of cores with some experiments...
And I've been pretty happy with them. IMO they are a bit bloated and I'm sure there is more stuff that could be cleared out to make them lighter (old v2009.x OVZ templates were significantly smaller than ISOs, but v11.x templates are bigger than ISO) but all in all, it seems to work ok so give it a shot.
I have plans to convert and upload most (if not all) of the current images as OVZ templates, just haven't got there yet.
If you wish we can share the work fo converting all appliances to ovz. Maybe we can ask the TKLDuo a space for those beta releases so we can upload them to the same place. I already have some of them, so we can split the rest.
I had not notice that ovz templates were bigger than there ISO counterparts. I don't see a reason for that, but I'll try to take a look on what's happening.
I'm happy to do that with you. It's not that hard, it's just a case of having some spare time (and the motivation) to sit down and do it. I've been spending a lot less time with my computer lately and often what seems to happen these days, is I plan to do a bit of TKL work and get sidetracked before I get very far (often here on the forums).
They are not significantly bigger (only ~20-30MB IIRC) but after the v2009.x templates being quite a bit smaller (than the ISOs - from memory the Core template was less than 80MB) I'm sure we could trim a bit off.
[update] Here is a screenshot showing the filesize difference. As I said it's not huge. As I'm sure you'd guess, the filesize is in bytes.
Thanks to Jeremy (I really mean it, "Thank You!"), I got started playing around with Proxmox w/KVM and OVZ. I like KVM better, but one of my servers (an older one) does not support it. I can't afford to switch out my newer server (which does support KVM) at this time due to the current set of apps running on it, so I am trying to lean a bit more about the OVZ format and use the older machine for that. The vm's I install from a template work just fine, but I have had difficulty in migrating existing machines or even creating new ones from scratch (especially Windows based VMs). I come from a Windows background (with about 16 years Windows programming experience) and have only seriously been using Linux OS's for less than a year. The thoughest part is just knowing the commands to execute from the commandline. I got a Linux ref book to help with that now. Anyway....
The TKL applicances I'd like to run are the Revison control, MySQL, and WediaWiki (and eventually many many more; I'm becoming a vm junkie ). I got a template for mediawiki already, but I have to port my existing wiki to it.
Adrian, I will read up on that post you suggested.
And for the record the reason why you would be having trouble hosting Win VMs under OVZ is that it doesn't support anything other than Linux guests!
This is because technically OVZ is not true virtualisation, it is merely a container rather than a true virtual machine (with virtual hardware). It may not make a lot of sense (if you don't have the Linux background) but OpenVZ is basically an enhanced chroot jail so rather than being completely separate to the host OS, it is actually just a part of the host. That is also why it is so resource friendly, many OVZ container OS processes can just piggy back off the host, rather than running their own separately. I haven't tested extensively with v11.x appliances, but I had an old v2009.x LAMP appliance serving a basic site with very low load that seemed quite incredible really. Off the top of my head the comparrison went something like (although maybe I'm making some of this up...!)
OpenVZ container
CPU (idle): 0%
CPU (peak): 12%
RAM usage (after reboot): 30-40MB
RAM usage (after running for a few days): ~80-90MB
KVM VM
CPU (idle): 4-6%
CPU (peak): 80-90%
RAM usage (after reboot): 80-90MB
RAM usage (after running for a few days): ~150-200MB
Hopefully this explains it all a little.
As for Linux/TKL newb resources, I have had a pretty steep learning curve over the last couple of years myself (was pretty much in the same boat as you). In my experience Google would have to be one of the best Linux resources and IMO it is so much easier to find useful Linux info (as opposed to Win info). I still often find myself having to google the occasional command to get the correct switches and/or syntax. Other good resources for working on TKL appliances are the Ubuntu Server guide (invaluable online Wiki type thing). The Ubuntu forums are also pretty handy, as are my beloved TKL forums :)
And yes converting existing Linux servers to OVZ can be tricky (although not impossible - unlike Win servers). From memory there should be some info and links on the PVE wiki and/or the OVZ wiki and/or the forum post Adrian linked to above.
If you really need Win VMs on your older server (that doesn't support KVM) then you may need to consider something else, like a headless VirtualBox server - use the search box (top right corner) as Rik has posted a TKL patch somewhere on here. Performance will probably be a little averae, but might get you out of a spot.
Thanks for the details... No, I don't really need Win Vm's on the old machine, I was just testing everything I could think of, "as all good programmers should do"... lol.
I like to have that comfort level before I say, "Ok, I'm putting my important stuff on this server now."
I'm fine with only linux on OVZ. I understand the container thing. I've worked a bit in the past with Virtuozzo, which I think is a similar concept.
And the resource info you provided is nice. I will probably be able to run an equal number of vm's on my old server with a slower CPU and less mem, with hopefully the same performace.
Most of my vm's do not need high performace. The only one that gets hit hard every now and then is my TKL-MySQL server. I use it for more than just websites!
I always get torn on how much detail to provide. Often I find with newbs its heaps easier to give lots of detail or otherwise you spend heaps of time backtracking and explaining yourself. The flip side is that I feel I run the risk of insulting the inteligence of someone with more experience. I guess I tend to err on the side of providing extra detail though because even if the OP doesn't need the info, someone else may find it useful.
I currently run about 8 appliances
You should take a look at this thread were it's discussed the procedure to do so. You'll need to install tklpatch and download a couple of scripts from that thread in order to convert your appliances. Which appliances are you interested in running?
I'm successfully running source control, two custom appliances, redmine, tracks, torrent server, mindtouch and a couple of cores with some experiments...
I too have had a bit of a play with OVZ TKL v11.x appliances
And I've been pretty happy with them. IMO they are a bit bloated and I'm sure there is more stuff that could be cleared out to make them lighter (old v2009.x OVZ templates were significantly smaller than ISOs, but v11.x templates are bigger than ISO) but all in all, it seems to work ok so give it a shot.
I have plans to convert and upload most (if not all) of the current images as OVZ templates, just haven't got there yet.
Let's work together in this
If you wish we can share the work fo converting all appliances to ovz. Maybe we can ask the TKLDuo a space for those beta releases so we can upload them to the same place. I already have some of them, so we can split the rest.
I had not notice that ovz templates were bigger than there ISO counterparts. I don't see a reason for that, but I'll try to take a look on what's happening.
Sounds good Adrian
I'm happy to do that with you. It's not that hard, it's just a case of having some spare time (and the motivation) to sit down and do it. I've been spending a lot less time with my computer lately and often what seems to happen these days, is I plan to do a bit of TKL work and get sidetracked before I get very far (often here on the forums).
They are not significantly bigger (only ~20-30MB IIRC) but after the v2009.x templates being quite a bit smaller (than the ISOs - from memory the Core template was less than 80MB) I'm sure we could trim a bit off.
[update] Here is a screenshot showing the filesize difference. As I said it's not huge. As I'm sure you'd guess, the filesize is in bytes.
Thanks to Jeremy
Thanks to Jeremy (I really mean it, "Thank You!"), I got started playing around with Proxmox w/KVM and OVZ. I like KVM better, but one of my servers (an older one) does not support it. I can't afford to switch out my newer server (which does support KVM) at this time due to the current set of apps running on it, so I am trying to lean a bit more about the OVZ format and use the older machine for that. The vm's I install from a template work just fine, but I have had difficulty in migrating existing machines or even creating new ones from scratch (especially Windows based VMs). I come from a Windows background (with about 16 years Windows programming experience) and have only seriously been using Linux OS's for less than a year. The thoughest part is just knowing the commands to execute from the commandline. I got a Linux ref book to help with that now. Anyway....
The TKL applicances I'd like to run are the Revison control, MySQL, and WediaWiki (and eventually many many more; I'm becoming a vm junkie
). I got a template for mediawiki already, but I have to port my existing wiki to it.
Adrian, I will read up on that post you suggested.
Thanks guys!
-Todd Forsberg
Glad to be of assistance :)
And for the record the reason why you would be having trouble hosting Win VMs under OVZ is that it doesn't support anything other than Linux guests!
This is because technically OVZ is not true virtualisation, it is merely a container rather than a true virtual machine (with virtual hardware). It may not make a lot of sense (if you don't have the Linux background) but OpenVZ is basically an enhanced chroot jail so rather than being completely separate to the host OS, it is actually just a part of the host. That is also why it is so resource friendly, many OVZ container OS processes can just piggy back off the host, rather than running their own separately. I haven't tested extensively with v11.x appliances, but I had an old v2009.x LAMP appliance serving a basic site with very low load that seemed quite incredible really. Off the top of my head the comparrison went something like (although maybe I'm making some of this up...!)
OpenVZ container
KVM VM
Hopefully this explains it all a little.
As for Linux/TKL newb resources, I have had a pretty steep learning curve over the last couple of years myself (was pretty much in the same boat as you). In my experience Google would have to be one of the best Linux resources and IMO it is so much easier to find useful Linux info (as opposed to Win info). I still often find myself having to google the occasional command to get the correct switches and/or syntax. Other good resources for working on TKL appliances are the Ubuntu Server guide (invaluable online Wiki type thing). The Ubuntu forums are also pretty handy, as are my beloved TKL forums :)
And yes converting existing Linux servers to OVZ can be tricky (although not impossible - unlike Win servers). From memory there should be some info and links on the PVE wiki and/or the OVZ wiki and/or the forum post Adrian linked to above.
If you really need Win VMs on your older server (that doesn't support KVM) then you may need to consider something else, like a headless VirtualBox server - use the search box (top right corner) as Rik has posted a TKL patch somewhere on here. Performance will probably be a little averae, but might get you out of a spot.
Thanks for the details...
Thanks for the details... No, I don't really need Win Vm's on the old machine, I was just testing everything I could think of, "as all good programmers should do"... lol.
I like to have that comfort level before I say, "Ok, I'm putting my important stuff on this server now."
I'm fine with only linux on OVZ. I understand the container thing. I've worked a bit in the past with Virtuozzo, which I think is a similar concept.
And the resource info you provided is nice. I will probably be able to run an equal number of vm's on my old server with a slower CPU and less mem, with hopefully the same performace.
Most of my vm's do not need high performace. The only one that gets hit hard every now and then is my TKL-MySQL server. I use it for more than just websites!
-Todd
-Todd Forsberg
Sorry if I waffled a bit much
I can have a tendancy to do that. It sounds like perhaps you know more about it all than I do!
And yeah Virtuozzo is OpenVZ (from what I've read).
No complaints
No complaints by me. TKL forum users have been very helpful. Waffle all ya like.
-Todd Forsberg
Cool :)
I always get torn on how much detail to provide. Often I find with newbs its heaps easier to give lots of detail or otherwise you spend heaps of time backtracking and explaining yourself. The flip side is that I feel I run the risk of insulting the inteligence of someone with more experience. I guess I tend to err on the side of providing extra detail though because even if the OP doesn't need the info, someone else may find it useful.
FYI official OVZ appliances now released
Have a look here.
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