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Jason Adams - Thu, 2013/05/09 - 17:17
Greetings!
I'm just curious why TKL opted to forgo the route of users and user permissions and do everything from the root superuser?
I ask because I'm an aspiring Linux user and when I talk about TKL in Linux channels I get severely repremanded when the exprienced users realize I'm working from the root user. I tend to tell them I don't know enough to debate the matter. It does make sense, but I mean to give TKL the benefit of the doubt. Someone mind helping me understand?
Thanks!
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A few points...
I recall this coming up ages ago (when I was still very new to Linux too) and one of the TKL core devs (I think it was Liraz) put a pretty good argument across (it totally convinced me anyway) and perhaps if you search you may be able to find it. I probably can't recreate it with the clarity and elegance that was done then, but I can say that the core devs are certainly not Linux slouches and take security seriously (they both have history of working within military IT security).
From my understanding/perspective, the general rule on using limited user accounts definately applies to a desktop system (or any system where you often have users logged into the system - at the commandline). But on a server system where all the processes are running in non privelidged accounts anyway and user commnadline logins only occur for maintenance and setup the hardline 'don't log in as root' reasoning breaks down somewhat.
Perhaps a good way to start is to explore the reasons why you would run as a 'sudo user' rather than root. The reasons as I understand them are:
So let's look at these:
And a final thought is that if you are really serious about security then ideally you should set a highly complex string as your password and instead use a key pair to login. With consideration to point 3 above this significantly raises the bar to brute force attack to a point that IMO the 'extra' security gained by not using the root account becomes inconsequential.
Bottom line is that if you are concerned about it, then you can easily install sudo and create a limited user account and disable root access. That's the beauty of Linux! :)
Couldn't find it.. but understood!
While I couldn't find the post your referring to, your recollection of it makese sense enough.
It's interesting, as I get further into Linux and talk to different people, there's less sentiment over how well something works, and more debate over how securely it works. I'll be asking how to do something, but the experienced user seems more keen on making sure my server is in an underground bunker; functional questions seem to annoy a lot of them.
Honestly, and especially to you, JedMeister, I've appreciated TKL considerably because it's probably the most humble Linux community I've come across. Most other places the users seem aghast I wasn't born with a predisposed knowledge of Linux. Astonishing, I know. ;)
Thanks for explaining!
I couldn't find it either...
But I did find another post of mine from a few years ago also mentioning it, but I couldn't find it then either... - perhaps I imagined it all! :)
Yeah personally I tend to be a pragmatist. I think security is important, but let's be honest; if you want a totally secure server then you need to make it totally physically secure (encased in concrete in an underground bunker!?) and not have any network connections at all. Secure? You bet! Useful? No not really! Obviously that's taking it to the extreme but there are always tradeoffs in life.
Anway, thanks for the positive feedback. I guess where I come from was that I too was a Linux newb and really struggled the first few times I 'had a go' at Linux. Early on I found most Linux info had an assumed baseline of knowledge that I just couldn't quite crack. By the time I wandered across TKL I was having my 3rd or 4th go at Linux and had found some success with Ubuntu and developed some baseline Linux knowledge (mostly from the Ubuntu community). So I felt right at home here and over the years of playing with stuff (and breaking plenty...) and helping others solve their problems I have learned quite a bit...
Anyway, enjoy! :)
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